I just bought a BRZ! Don't tell me I should've bought a used Cayman.

"Gatsby's Ghost" (Gatsbysghost)
04/20/2014 at 13:05 • Filed to: None

After six months of considerate, contemplative car shopping, I've just bought a slow, thrashy-sounding Subaru that doesn't have AWD. Its back seats are useless, its interior is just on the right side of 1996, and it is 63 bhp down on my last ride (the totally bonkers 2nd-gen Mazdaspeed3). Yes, the Scibaru Chimaera gets a lot of hate here on Oppo for all these reasons and more! And by more, I mean specifically, it gets bashed for costing the same as a used Cayman but not being as good:

Don't you know how much Cayman you could have bought for $26k?! -@EverySingleOpponaut

Look. I don't want to be a dick about this, but NO MORE! Seriously, I've had it up to here . [Gesture violently to the point I've had it up to.]

A Cayman S was on my shopping list. I test-drove a nice example of a 2007 Cayman S that was in my price range. Let me tell you, the Cayman is the best car I've ever driven in my life. But I didn't buy it, because I'm 22 and I know what it costs to replace the clutch on a Cayman S; I know how long its expensive performance tires last (hint: not long); and I know how much insurance costs (hint: all of my money). For your $25-30k, you will only find pain in the embrace of a Porsche Cayman. Well, pain and massive debt.

The BRZ is a $26,000 car; a used Porsche Cayman S is a $26,000* car.

*Plus several thousand dollars per year in consumable parts that are WAY more expensive than they should be, several thousand dollars a year to insure this car because apparently men under 25 all crash into everything all the time and so I have to pay for their mistakes, which, what exactly is the deal with that, while we're on the subject? Oh, plus several thousand dollars when the faulty seals on the Intermediate Shaft bearing crack and let engine oil into the bearing, and then the bearing explodes and its innards spill into the engine bay, destroying the valves and necessitating a total engine-out rebuild. Speaking of "engine-out," get real used to hearing those words from your mechanic, because it's going to happen a lot. YMMV.

If you can afford a Cayman S above the $30k line, then I urge you to find one and buy it. It's a sharp, compliant, German rocketship, and it oozes quality from every pore.

The BRZ is not quite the car that even a 7-year-old Cayman S is. But it's probably 75% the car that the Cayman is, and 75% of perfection is still pretty damned good in my book. It feels fast; at the end of the day, that's really all I care about. It feels much faster than it really is, and that quality alone justifies the purchase for me. And the interior is shockingly nice, if you look in the right places! I mean, the factory head unit makes me want to stab someone, and there's no center armrest. But the steering wheel is a VW-grade quality object, the shifter is doing a decent Honda S2000 gearbox impersonation, and the seats are better than all of the seats in my apartment. It turns heads, too—in this lovely shade of WR Blue, it garners comments and inspires amateur photographers just about everywhere I take it.

And it comes with a 6 year/100,000-mile powertrain warranty. So when the head gaskets finally go The Way Of All Things Subaru, I won't be left holding the bag.

But there are some questions remaining. Will I eventually decide that it really does need more power and supercharge it? Will the interior develop a maddening series of squeaks and rattles that give me a flashback to my Mazdaspeed3? Will it shake me to pieces on the 1,700 mile road trip I'm taking from Denver to Raleigh this fall? Should I have just waited for the MkVII GTI to come out and purchased one of those instead?

Short answer: I'll let you know.

DISCUSSION (94)

Brian Silvestro > Gatsby's Ghost
04/20/2014 at 13:09

Nice car man! Don't let the haters get to you.

Related, how is the Speed3? Awesome? I'm thinking about buying one soon.

JDIGGS > Gatsby's Ghost
04/20/2014 at 13:10

was in the same boat. The reality is if you throw some money at mild suspension and tires f a cayman. Why? your car is brand new baby.

There is a reason when the BRZ came out it was so popular, because the electric assist steering trumped the shit out of Porsches electric steering (supposedly gotten better and more unaffordable)

signintoburnerlol > Gatsby's Ghost
04/20/2014 at 13:10

There's a sucker born every minute.

-FRS owenr.

AthomSfere > Gatsby's Ghost
04/20/2014 at 13:13

I would have picked the same! Good choice, and great color. Also I am happy you went BRZ instead of FR-s. As long its manual no gripes from this keyboard.

MR2_FTW - Group J's resident Stig > Gatsby's Ghost
04/20/2014 at 13:23

Not Cayman. Should have bought a Miata, an MR2, an FC RX7, and a MK3 Supra Turbo. All together for the same price :P

But seriously, very cool. I hope you enjoy it.

YSI-what can brown do for you > Gatsby's Ghost
04/20/2014 at 13:28

It is too slow, miata is a better choice, not enough torque that makes the Fiesta better, gearbox sucks too notchy, its not comfortable, where is my sunroof, why no turbo, it looks ugly, wheels are too small, where is my sunroof!, should have just made it a two seater, straight line speed is what matters and this sucks at that, you should have just bought a used S2000, they could have made it lighter but I still want 19213 other features in this car.

In my opinion though, I love this thing. It is not slow in everyday traffic, while autocrossing the power isn't as important as the handling. Does it need more power? No. would I like some more? Yes. As for turbo or supercharger. Yes. Do it, either of them! Get some UELs and you will love the sound it makes as well!

feather-throttle-not-hair > Gatsby's Ghost
04/20/2014 at 13:29

Yay. Sense, you make it.

I've many times considered buying a BRZ, but it's that huge horsepower drop that keeps me from doing it. I currently drive a 350Z, which is not all that dissimilar of a vehicle in a few important ways. I have no doubt that a BRZ would be a better drive and more fun, but it's hard for me to replace a car with another car that is also a sports car but has a worse power to weight ratio, even if it does all that "fun" stuff way better.

Lawrence B Marshall > Gatsby's Ghost
04/20/2014 at 13:30

Had the same delimea earlier this month. Wasn't a fan of the brz, but went with a miata club spec instead.

07 Cayman was an option. 07 Z4M Coupe was another. The adult in me decided it wasn't worth the repair bills.

Forgetful > Gatsby's Ghost
04/20/2014 at 13:31

Welcome to the club. Great attitude. Ultramarine FR-S here. TRD exhaust, FiveAxis rear spoiler.

Just popped the FR-S badge off of it yesterday.

Kinja'd!!!

If you want to supercharge it, start with OpenFlashTablet. It's a plug and play tuning tablet that gives you 20hp. They also sell their own UEL header and entire Vortech supercharger kit that is pretty much a bolt on 300hp kit. They have free tunes and offer custom tuning. There are a lot of cars out there running around 400hp, trouble free. I'm going to pull the trigger on the tablet soon. http://www.openflashtablet.com/products/OFT30…

If you want LEDs check out Diodedynamics.com I highly recommend the interior and trunk lights. I bought thier HIDs, switchback turnsignals, and a tapturn signal flasher (autowindow.com), so my signals glow white then flash amber.

Kinja'd!!!

Pretty much anything you'd need to know can be found at FT86club.com.

PS9 > Forgetful
04/20/2014 at 13:34

Idiot: "Why didn't you buy a used Cayman?"
You: "I can get a used Cayman with 0% wear and tear + warranty for this price?"

Gatsby's Ghost > Brian Silvestro
04/20/2014 at 13:36

I sold it so I could buy this beauty, but it was a good car! The power is really intoxicating—though it really drops off in the last 1000 rpm. The thing is, unless you're planning to track the thing, the GTI is a better bet. My girlfriend has a '13 GTI, and so I can say from experience that the GTI does everything as well as, or better than, the Mazdaspeed. The vee-dub chucks out all the torque you could ever want outside of a competitive situation, and it does so exuberantly, consistently, and in a way that's easier to control than the MS3. And the interior is a masterclass, a hundred times nicer and quieter and more comfortable than the Mazda, while being no less fun to handle on the street.

So IMHO, if you're going to buy a hot hatch, I don't see any reason why you'd buy anything besides a GTI.

Brian Silvestro > Gatsby's Ghost
04/20/2014 at 13:39

I'm really not into the GTI at all actually. And I don't want to be put into "that" stereotype. Thanks for the info on the 'speed though!

Gatsby's Ghost > AthomSfere
04/20/2014 at 13:39

It is ABSOLUTELY a manual. I can't stomach the idea of getting an auto, especially when a car is this controllable and brilliant to drive.

Forgetful > signintoburnerlol
04/20/2014 at 13:39

Kinja'd!!!

Gatsby's Ghost > Lawrence B Marshall
04/20/2014 at 13:42

I totally hear you. The Miata was on my list, too, but I live in Colorado, so snow is a definite concern for a soft-top. Plus I do a lot of long road trips, and I don't see that changing any time soon, so I wanted the little touch of added quietness that comes from having a hardtop. But congrats on your Miata Club Spec! That is an amazing choice—looks a lot better than the non-Club NC, too, imho.

Gatsby's Ghost > Brian Silvestro
04/20/2014 at 13:45

I hear ya; it's not for everybody. The Speed3 is an absolute weapon, though, and if you can put up with the fact that it isn't all that comfortable, the power will never disappoint you. It has more torque than an E46 M3 and it weighs like 200 lbs. less, and you can absolutely feel that from behind the wheel.

If you do go with that car, then I wish you the very best of luck! It's a crazy, wild bastard of a machine, but damn if it isn't fun on a back road.

slomaro > Gatsby's Ghost
04/20/2014 at 13:46

+1 for well composed writing on oppo

Brian Silvestro > Gatsby's Ghost
04/20/2014 at 13:48

Thank you for the advice man! I'll definitely keep it in mind.

Gatsby's Ghost > signintoburnerlol
04/20/2014 at 13:48

I would agree, except my BRZ 6M Limited (the higher trim level) was only $25,500 OTD—$2k under invoice. And the dealer threw in maintenance for 2 years/25,000 miles to be competitive with the Scion's maintenance plan. At that price point, I figured I'd be a sucker not to go for it!

Gatsby's Ghost > slomaro
04/20/2014 at 13:50

Thank you so much!

NotUnlessRoundIsFunny > Gatsby's Ghost
04/20/2014 at 14:02

Well said. As a recovering used Porsche owner, I'd say that you made an excellent choice. As you point out, a used $26k Cayman may be a wonderful car, but it's not really a $26k car—my own rule of thumb was to add a percentage to the purchase price of a used car and just assume I'd need to splash that out to fix anything I discovered or that broke in the first year or two. If it took less, I was happy.

Porsche parts prices being what they are, I'm not sure what the right percentage would be, but I wouldn't want to set aside any less than 25% or so, which makes it potentially a $32.5k car. Plus the hassle, and that Porsche doesn't seem to have handled things like the intermediate shaft problem in a very customer-friendly manner.

HOWEVER, if you said that the Cayman was your all-time dream car, the ultimate ultimate ride for you and driving anything else would depress you, THEN I might say different. But you've got plenty of time to get a used Cayman when you'll be able to either 1. Just enjoy the Porsche bliss or 2. Afford a loveable money pit.

Cheers!

JasonStern911 > Gatsby's Ghost
04/20/2014 at 14:44

congrats on your purchase.

that said, well maintained and not tracked/abused Porsches don't cost thousands of dollars in repairs a year.

Gatsby's Ghost > JasonStern911
04/20/2014 at 14:53

Thanks :) Yeah, I mean, well-maintained Porsches are rather like any well-maintained vehicle, in that they don't usually cost an arm and a leg to maintain. But I guess my point was that well-maintained and/or low-mileage Caymans are difficult enough to find (especially with manual gearboxes; as Clarkson once said, manuals tend to be bought by "the sort of chap who likes to take it to the max between gear changes"). That difficulty triples when you're trying to stay under $30k.

So for your sub-$30k Porsche, you make a few compromises. Maybe you get the 40,000-mile car that had 4 owners, and just cross your fingers that none of them tracked it. Maybe you get the 1-owner car with a complete service history, but 70,000 miles on the clock. Either way, yeah, you're not exactly doomed to a money pit of repair and replenishment, but there is a non-negligible amount of risk inherent in the purchase.

Gatsby's Ghost > NotUnlessRoundIsFunny
04/20/2014 at 15:49

Yeah, that's basically how I thought of it. I don't know what that percentage is in the case of an '07 Cayman S, and it probably varies substantially depending on the individual car. But I figured that the percentage was probably about what you figured—an extra 25% or so—and I just don't have an extra 25% to spend in case my car goes wrong right now!

So, as you say, life is long, and I am determined to own a Porsche at some point; I've seen the light, and now I know that I must have one of these cars in my life.

Out of curiosity, what did you replace your Porsche with?

Gatsby's Ghost > Forgetful
04/20/2014 at 15:55

Thanks for the links! I will absolutely consider tuning it with OpenFlashTablet.

Also, I love that shade of blue on your FR-S. It's a great color. Honestly, there's a lot to love about the FR-S, and a lot to recommend it over the BRZ; somehow, the use of materials in the FR-S seems more correct—or maybe I should say "honest," or "authentic"—at this price point. So I almost went that route.

Anyway, I'm on FT86club.com! My username is gatsbysghost. Maybe I'll see you around that forum!

How are you liking the TRD exhausts? I really prefer the tone of the TRDs, personally, and I'm thinking of buying some from my local Toyota dealer and sticking them on the BRZ. Maybe that'll give my car a small identity crisis, but I think it really fills out the sound!

Forgetful > Gatsby's Ghost
04/20/2014 at 15:56

I like my exhaust. It's not obnoxiously loud, but it has a nice rip.

Gatsby's Ghost > Forgetful
04/20/2014 at 15:59

Oooh. Want . A very nice rip.

NotUnlessRoundIsFunny > Gatsby's Ghost
04/20/2014 at 20:15

After a couple of twists and turns, I got an NSX which has been fantastic. But I still absolutely get the allure of Porsches, and the Cayman S in particular.

meatatarian > Gatsby's Ghost
04/20/2014 at 21:36

I have a Cayman, and wholeheartedly approve of your choice! Great car, congratulations and enjoy!!

Burrito de EJ25 > Gatsby's Ghost
04/20/2014 at 23:23

I hope your BRZ doesn't rattle. I really hope this generation of Subarus is the end of that crap.

I took my WRX out on a road trip from LA to San Francisco all through the 101 and 1 and I swear there was a new rattle every hour. And the Homelink auto-dimming mirror, which I've had repaired four times, started buzzing as well with the radio bass and the engine's rumble at low RPMs. It was absolutely maddening.

I've complained about the dashboard rattling, especially during cold weather, but my dealer has never been able to reproduce the sound. I'm going to take it in on Tuesday to have that fucking rearview mirror "fixed" again.

TheOnelectronic > Gatsby's Ghost
04/21/2014 at 02:51

I've driven the FRS and had a Cayman S long term. The Toyobaru is more fun to drive on real world streets, trust me.

Gatsby's Ghost > Burrito de EJ25
04/21/2014 at 06:10

Your story is all too familiar to me. My Mazdaspeed3 seemed to spend every minute of its waking life devising new squeaks and rattles. From a rattle in the mounting points on the gauge cluster to one somewhere behind the driver-side A/C vent to a chirping trunk latch, that car basically sounded like a broken mattress.

I actually swore that I would buy a GTI, because whatever you can say about the VW, you can at least say that it's a quality object, and one free of rattles, at that. It also doesn't have the Mazda's punishing, horrendous ride—as someone who chose a sporty car, I know I pretty much lose the right to complain about this, but the Mazdaspeed was just an unpleasant place to be when the road was anything but perfectly flat.

So, like I said (somewhat glibly) in my first paragraph, I deliberated which car I should buy for literally six months, imagining that I would probably end up in a GTI regardless. But one day, I woke up, went to a Subaru dealer, and made an emotional decision to buy the BRZ instead of the smart decision to visit the VW dealer down the street. I think it can still be the right decision, even if for different reasons, but I guess only time will tell!

Gatsby's Ghost > TheOnelectronic
04/21/2014 at 06:13

I'm glad to hear that! So far I'm loving mine. It makes you look for excuses to go for a drive. I've woken up at 5am two mornings in a row just to get in a drive before work. I'm completely smitten.

avens > Gatsby's Ghost
04/21/2014 at 09:44

Considering everyone says the BRZ lacks power, have you searched about ways of adding more ponies into it?

avens > avens
04/21/2014 at 09:45

BTW I don't read last paragraphs. Never.

Gatsby's Ghost > avens
04/21/2014 at 11:30

Well, I don't think it needs more power—at least, in my experience so far, I think it's plenty of fun with 200 bhp/151 lb.ft..

But, that said, Innovate Motorsports makes a supercharger kit that looks really tempting. As you can see by this dyno run, it brings the whp up to 225 and the torque up to 184 at the wheels, which sounds delightful to me. It also fixes the "torque hole" (which is also an excellent insult you can use on your gearhead friends, as long as you don't mind them never talking to you again) between 3250 RPM and 4500 RPM.

Kinja'd!!!

But these are just numbers . Numbers have no meaning. The car already feels fast to me, and I drive at a mile above sea level! So I don't really care that it has a 0-60 time from the 1990s. But once I have a little more cash in my wallet, I might supercharge it just for the hell of it anyway...superchargers don't need reasons.

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > Gatsby's Ghost
04/22/2014 at 07:32

+1 BRZ is good thing. I liked my test drive of it a lot. I didn't get it ultimately, but that's a whole other story.

You have to be very wary buying a $25K Porsche. Mainly because of the maintenance, and the fact that its, well, a Porsche. It will vacuum out your wallet.

In BMW land, I would have recommended an E86 Z4 Coupe. Not the M, but the 3.0si. Its more than enough oomph, and you don't have the utterly insane M maintenance bills (Valve adjustment? Really? That dead set against hydraulic lifters are you, M Division?)

cluelessk > Gatsby's Ghost
04/22/2014 at 15:16

Now get your wheels powder coated white. But nice car.

Kinja'd!!!

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > Gatsby's Ghost
04/22/2014 at 16:37

I hope you enjoy it, but the proper answer is always Montego.

Do you know how badass of a Montego I could have found you for that cost?

Gatsby's Ghost > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner
04/22/2014 at 16:42

Damn, dude, I should have talked to you before I bought this thing! I didn't even KNOW I was holding onto primo-grade Montego money. I always figured they were too rich for my blood. Did you know, they haven't depreciated at all? Not one dime. Weirdest thing.

Jonathan Harper > Gatsby's Ghost
04/23/2014 at 08:08

Presented without comment.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > Gatsby's Ghost
04/23/2014 at 09:18

Hahahaha.

Come on Gatsby! Think!

Actually my car (I have the original window sticker from '68) was listed at around 26-2800 if I remember correctly. And I paid 2500, so it depreciated just about 300 bucks...not bad...(oh it's worth over 7000 but....)

Gatsby's Ghost > Jonathan Harper
04/23/2014 at 09:41

Great vid! A Cayman S on a great road is absolutely a thing to savor...one day, I hope to be able to afford one of my own!

That's the thing about used Caymans that makes them so frustratingly alluring: are they as cheap to own as the modest price of entry would lead you to believe? No, absolutely not . Are they worth it—and, more tangibly, are they a bargain regardless? Yes, absolutely .

I take it from the matching profile pics on the YouTube poster's profile and your Kinja profile that you're the owner of this fine automobile; congratulations on that score. It makes a glorious noise, and I'm sure it handles like a dream. I am—not a little—jealous.

Jonathan Harper > Gatsby's Ghost
04/23/2014 at 12:25

not mine! I work at the Classic Car Club Manhattan and get to drive it often.

Gatsby's Ghost > Jonathan Harper
04/23/2014 at 12:28

That might make me even more jealous, actually! I've heard that CCC is an amazing place to work.

PardonMyFlemish16 > Gatsby's Ghost
04/25/2014 at 11:12

The insurance thing is the only legit reason to not have gone Cayman

Gatsby's Ghost > PardonMyFlemish16
04/25/2014 at 11:45

I respectfully disagree. The value of a factory-issued warranty, especially when parts and labor for your car are as notoriously expensive as they are for a Porsche, cannot be overstated in my estimation. And, to head off the inevitable objection about "shopping around and finding a well-maintained one," I will quote myself, in a reply that I gave to an earlier comment in the same vein:

Yeah, I mean, well-maintained Porsches are rather like any well-maintained vehicle, in that they don't usually cost an arm and a leg in parts and labor. But I guess my point was that well-maintained and/or low-mileage Caymans are difficult enough to find (especially with manual gearboxes; as Clarkson once said, manuals tend to be bought by "the sort of chap who likes to take it to the max between gear changes"). That difficulty triples when you're trying to stay under $30k.

PardonMyFlemish16 > Gatsby's Ghost
04/25/2014 at 11:58

The high mileage 1 owner car with a complete service history is the ticket. These aren't 1973 Chryslers... modern cars are very robust and mileage is not that big of a deal. Especially if, for example, the car has highish miles, but just got a major service done.

I bought my 350Z with 163K miles on the clock... I work from home, do my own mechanical work etc so I could rationalize taking that risk. But I have the full service records, and the car runs like a top. I have driven it basically up and down the East Coast and have had no hiccups. From what I hear, the FT86/BRZ are actually a little problematic, compounded with the issue that their newness makes repair parts hard to come by. So even with the warranty it might still be a pain in the ass

Now to be fair from what I hear the Boxster/Cayman's MR layout makes any kind of repair or even basic maintenance a pain. But I think I would pony up for that to drive one of the best chassis' on the road.

Like I said the insurance thing is legit... I am 30 now and definitely could not have insured this car >5 years ago.

Gatsby's Ghost > PardonMyFlemish16
04/25/2014 at 16:27

You make a fair point—though, as you say, the MR layout is really kind of a hassle for a to do DIY maintenance on. But I have a feeling that the BRZ might turn into an equal hassle, just because it's a flat engine, too. That's the thing with Subaru engines—unless you're changing the oil/filter, the first step for any engine maintenance or repair is always "Take the engine out." Time for new spark plugs? Take the engine out. New head gasket? (Oh, and there are two heads on this 4-cylinder, because flat? Screw you guys.) Take the engine out. Hopefully the head gaskets are a little less troublesome on this new generation of engines...

All that said, I totally agree with you: I think a Cayman is completely worth it if you can afford to keep it on the road. When my insurance premiums finally start to dip, I'm going to seriously consider picking one up! Because, let's not mess about: the Cayman is obviously the superior car, and by a country mile.

PardonMyFlemish16 > Gatsby's Ghost
04/25/2014 at 17:09

Not if I buy it first!!! And yea Caymans are in the same phase now as E30 M3s were about 10 years ago. Everyone kind of wrote them off and stopped caring about them and they were dirt cheap... I would not be surprised if $30K proved to be the bottom of the price range for used Cayman Ss.

Gatsby's Ghost > PardonMyFlemish16
04/25/2014 at 17:25

Sounds about right to me...I expect the first-gen ones to climb in value TREMENDOUSLY over the next decade.

kenhitch > Gatsby's Ghost
04/25/2014 at 19:35

Congratulations on the new car! I'm 22 and I also just bought a BRZ the other week, 'cept in red. Thanks for bringing up those points about the Cayman, I've been dealing with the same thing. A lot of people seem to forget to factor in the costs of ownership when talking about buying car.

kenhitch > kenhitch
04/25/2014 at 19:35

frozen fingers. *buying a car.

CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) > Gatsby's Ghost
04/25/2014 at 19:37

Kudos man! Good thing you didnt buy a auto like those non believers out there...

SmoresTM Has No Chill (O==[][]==O) > Gatsby's Ghost
04/25/2014 at 19:59

Gah, I love it. I'm glad you went with a BRZ Limited over an FR-S. That's the route I would take as well.

So, let me ask you a question. In the next month or two I'm getting a new car, though likely something lightly pre-owned. I was looking into the BRZ and, spec'd the way I want it, they're just above my ideal price point. My other consideration is a Fiat 500 Abarth, which is a few grand cheaper. I could get one brand new for the price of a BRZ. I also may be moving to Boston next year, so it would be nice to have something that small for city driving but without giving up all the fun/personality. They're super different cars in every way, but my top two choices. Being someone who owns a BRZ and has owned a hot hatch, do you have any input that might be helpful in making that decision?

titsinmymitts > Brian Silvestro
04/25/2014 at 20:11

MS3 is an awesome car. I sometimes wish I had gotten one over my ST. If the ST had the bigger turbo of the MS3, it would be perfect.

titsinmymitts > NotUnlessRoundIsFunny
04/25/2014 at 20:13

Dude, in 4 pics of NSX.

Actually, can we get a full post regarding the NSX ownership experience?

titsinmymitts > Gatsby's Ghost
04/25/2014 at 20:15

I have actually heard the opposite regarding the GTI—-I hear it rattles like crazy and while the fit and finish overall is quite good, the car is not actually of very high quality, especially when it comes to the electrical components.

LaaateApex > Gatsby's Ghost
04/25/2014 at 20:54

As BRZ/FR-S/GT86 fan and someone who works on Porsche's for a living, I can tell you that Cayman engines do not come out as often as you might think. This doesn't change the fact that they do cost considerably more to maintain and fix, as do all Porsche's, but most of the work can be done from below the vehicle and through the two access panels above or in front of the engine compartment. As stated, you don't own a $25 -30K vehicle with a used Cayman S, you own a used $70k+ vehicle and it will cost you accordingly.

But, they are phenomenal to drive, period.

Goatsausage > Gatsby's Ghost
04/25/2014 at 21:52

Screw that! you should've bought a boat!

NotUnlessRoundIsFunny > titsinmymitts
04/25/2014 at 21:57

Sure, if you think people would be interested I'd be happy to throw something together. Might take me a little while to get my thoughts together...

Mr Clutch > Gatsby's Ghost
04/25/2014 at 22:12

I was looking for a new sports car to replace my current car, I have my eye on the BRZ. The reason being is I want to try something I always wanted to do an engine swap, take a Ipreza STI motor and drop it in. Of coarse I would drive it around unmolested at first, then I would do the swap. It's on my bucket list of things to do, and besides Japanese cars and engine swaps are like fat kids and cupcakes they go hand in hand. I would not think anyone will frown on that.

I always wanted to do an Exdige engine swap and drop in an STI or EVO engine but I think it would be cheaper to go the BRZ route.

Stephen Krogmeier > NotUnlessRoundIsFunny
04/25/2014 at 22:24

I think people would be interested. There are one or two I see around in KC and every time I see one I wish I could learn more about owning the "everymans super car" after ten years of road under its tires.

MPA > Forgetful
04/25/2014 at 22:52

I love the switchbacks - the previous owner of my Corvette installed a set for the DRLs

MPA > Gatsby's Ghost
04/25/2014 at 22:58

Congrats - when I was wanting a BRZ, it was that blue. Enjoy! Who cares what anyone else says - if you enjoy it, that's all that matters.

And as far as feeling fast - for a short time I had a Ninja 250 just to mess with - when you were accelerating through the gears it made all the right sounds, and when I would run up through 3rd gear from a stop, it'd only be at 60mph. Was a lot of fun to ride on the street.

NotUnlessRoundIsFunny > Stephen Krogmeier
04/25/2014 at 23:04

That's actually an interesting perspective, rather than a review format, more of a "what's it like to live with one?" article. Lemme think on that, thanks!

ProjectLiquid > Gatsby's Ghost
04/25/2014 at 23:49

Ok so, If you had the choice between a really good miata of your choice and color or the BRZ, which do you choose?

I ask because this is my current dilemma. I'm in dire need of a new car and I'm falling in love with the miata idea. But that BRZ is sooo badass!

Either one I'd be happy with. Maybe any current miata owners could pitch in their 2 cents?

Agent-Goldfish > MR2_FTW - Group J's resident Stig
04/26/2014 at 02:52

FC RX-7 is not worth it, I know because I have one. Wanna talk about expensive parts? Try finding them first.

Poodles > Gatsby's Ghost
04/26/2014 at 05:33

OEM armrest is available (just not from your local dealer as we don't get those nice things here).

Also, the gearbox feels like an S2000 gearbox because it IS an S2000 gearbox. It's also the same one they use in the Miata.

GTI = FWD = /> BRZ

Gatsby's Ghost > kenhitch
04/26/2014 at 06:27

Very true. If I had a dollar for every armchair mechanic who told me 90 reasons why I should've bought an E46 M3 instead, I would be wealthy enough to actually afford one.

Gatsby's Ghost > CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist)
04/26/2014 at 06:30

I will never understand the sort of person who would buy an automatic Toyobaru. That is just...treasonous. Also the auto 1) saps the power, and 2) has both 5th and 6th as overdrive gears, where on the stick, 5th is 1:1 and 6th is overdrive.

2tonic > Gatsby's Ghost
04/26/2014 at 06:58

Congrats. This car was #1 on my list til I drove it. It drives beautifully but it hurts my ears. OK, so you also have to rev it out, and it's not as enjoyable as revving out an RX-8.

I went back to my roots and found a pristine '11 128i w/ 22k on the clock at $24k out the door and 3 years of warranty. Moar power, classic sound, and it's a great base for draining my wallet with expenditures for: Quaife LSD, M3 suspension, DISA intake upgrade, header,.....

I still love the BRZ, though. With 25 - 50 ft. lbs. moat torque and moar sound insulation, I would be owning one right now.

Gatsby's Ghost > SmoresTM Has No Chill (O==[][]==O)
04/26/2014 at 07:01

First, let me give you a tip about BRZs: dealers really want to get rid of them, but they don't know how. So they're willing to deal in a big way. My car's MSRP was $29,009 with a Manual, Limited trim, and a couple of options that the dealer happened to order it with (chrome fender trim, wheel locks, a Homelink mirror). Invoice was about $27,400, and I got the dealer to knock the price down to—wait for it—$25,500. It was the end of the month, which is a great time to deal, but that just goes to show you how far down the price can get.

Anyway, back to your question. It's a tricky one. I've gotta say, the BRZ was an emotional purchase for me. A hot hatch is, in many ways, a more sensible decision: you buy it because it can do the duties of a regular hatch and a sports car. But—to paraphrase Chris Harris—you buy a sports coupe because it does two things: 1) you're in love with it conceptually, as a static object, just parked in your garage—you love the idea of owning it; and 2) you love the driving experience it offers. To buy a coupe as your only car, you probably have to be willing to make some compromises in space and practicality.

But if you're getting the Abarth, you're not looking at a car with a lot more interior volume than the BRZ; the back seats are just about as useless, and the trunk is probably roughly the same size. So the compromise you're making is that the BRZ is bigger and it's RWD.

Here are some random thoughts I have on the matter:

-You'll probably want to put snow tires on whichever one you choose, and if you do that, then either of them would be fine in the snow. Lots of people are getting on just fine DDing their BRZs year-round with the simple addition of snow tires.

-One piece of coupe-vs.-hot hatch wisdom I've gleaned over the years is that a hot hatch has a really high center of gravity, which necessitates the fitting of stiff springs to mitigate the roll, and this tends to mess up the ride. A BRZ has softer springs, so it handles rough pavement much better than my Mazdaspeed3 did. I can't speak to how the Abarth deals with rough pavement, though I do know that the standard 500 rolls a lot, and the Abarth doesn't, so I assume its springs are pretty damn stiff.

-The BRZ's visibility is not as good as the Fiat's. But it's better than you might expect—it has huge, Toyota-spec side-view mirrors, and the seating position is great.

-The Abarth has a better exhaust note, almost undisputedly. It really is glorious.

-The BRZ is bigger in every dimension but height. It is just over eight inches shorter. It is also almost three feet longer, and—perhaps surprisingly, only five inches wider.

If you have any more questions, I'm happy to answer them!

Gatsby's Ghost > ProjectLiquid
04/26/2014 at 07:04

Mmmm, that's a tricky choice. If it's your DD and you live somewhere where it snows regularly, or if you're likely to want to take it on a cross-country trip, I'd say BRZ. If you live in California and/or if it's a toy for the summer, go Miata!

derf > Gatsby's Ghost
04/26/2014 at 08:53

I came down on the E46 M3 side of the fence myself, but I'd never rip on you for picking the Toyobaru. I test drove it a few times, and it was great fun.

It's certainly true that M parts aren't cheap and you do need to factor in maintenance above and beyond the purchase price, but the M3 isn't necessarily the unholy money pit that some make it out to be, especially if you don't mind doing some things yourself and know a competent and honest independent BMW mechanic. By the same token, you don't need to supercharge an FRS/BRZ to make it fun. There are a few guys around here autocrossing them and having an absolute blast.

I forget if I was actually going anywhere with this, but anyhow, enjoy the car - it looks great. :)

Slave2anMG > Gatsby's Ghost
04/26/2014 at 09:29

I'm a VeeDub guy...but VW is pretty dang proud of the GTI.

manifold engines > Gatsby's Ghost
04/26/2014 at 12:17

One shortcoming of the Cayman - headroom. At a tall torso 6'5"+, I was unable to fit comfortably in the the Cayman. Presently, with over 20k canyon and mountain miles as seen below, my BRZ performs admirably and is a better DD than my previous Porsches, Jaguars and Audis. If I were an urbanite, no way. The car is too invisible to the average truck and SUV, the entry and exit angles cause some problems on steep driveways and getting in and out for frequent errands is hard on my older joints.

Subuyotas are like Harleys - if you have to ask, you wouldn't understand. Grok BRZ...

Kinja'd!!!

DipodomysDeserti > YSI-what can brown do for you
04/26/2014 at 12:41

So, a turbo and UEL headers. Why not just get a WRX. You'll have spent less money, have more hp and AWD, and still have a warranty.

YSI-what can brown do for you > DipodomysDeserti
04/26/2014 at 12:45

What was that, I couldn't hear you over the understeer.

SmoresTM Has No Chill (O==[][]==O) > Gatsby's Ghost
04/26/2014 at 16:28

I'm seriously torn on the issue. The BRZ definitely has a nicer interior and likely a better seating position, but the Abarth has the exhaust note, a bit more character to it and is less common. I test drove the Abarth, and it was a blast. The Abarth is definitely on the stiff side, but I drove a JCW Mini Cooper S for a few months, and the springs were definitely a little stiffer on that car so I don't think it would bother me that much.

The main thing about the Abarth that I love is how ridiculous it is. It's kind of stupid. Let's take a small hatchback, that was pretty much useless behind the driver seat in the first place, and lets make it lower and more aggressive. While we're at it, lets throw in a 60% horsepower gain. I think that, by Chris Harris's logic, it's the sports coupe of the hatchback world.

But the BRZ is an actual sports coupe... And I do love those.

If I chose either car, I'll probably get similar reactions. "Oh, you could have gotten a GTI/used Cayman. It's faster and blah blah blah," but for basically new cars these two seem to be the best contenders that I would be able to afford, and I think I'd be very happy with either. Or both. I'll have to test drive them both a few more times and see what I think. Thanks for the input! And congrats on that price. Damn.

NJAnon2 > Gatsby's Ghost
04/26/2014 at 22:47

Could have gotten a 1970 Volvo Amazon. It has 200hp. just kidding. If you are planning to temporarily have that BR-Z, then you won't have to worry about anything.

If you're planning to keep the BR-Z for a very long time, then upgrades are in order. Crawford Performance? Maybe a call to Subaru and ask for some GT300 parts from the race BR-Z? do it!

DipodomysDeserti > YSI-what can brown do for you
04/27/2014 at 13:02

Under steer on a wrx can be solved by a $150 rear sway bar. for the record, I really like the brz/frs for what it is. But turning a $26k into a $30k+ car by adding stuff to it that's already available on a car made by the same company seems silly. Especially if you know anything about adding extra power to stock Subaru engines (can't hear you over your cracked ring lands).

YSI-what can brown do for you > DipodomysDeserti
04/27/2014 at 13:10

http://ft86speedfactory.com/250-whp-power-…

Buy this. Get better pads. Get better tires. Done. They have tracked it and travelled across the country with it for nearly 40k miles.

DipodomysDeserti > YSI-what can brown do for you
04/27/2014 at 14:29

So now you have a $32k+ BRZ that has no warranty and still makes about the same power as a $26k WRX. Uhhhh, no thanks. Subaru pistons are soft. I know, I cracked one in a WRX after I got it up to around 260 AWHP. Shit, the STI has an MSRP that starts at around $34k.

YSI-what can brown do for you > DipodomysDeserti
04/27/2014 at 15:18

Whats that. 268hp versus 256whp. Oh shit the FRS better eat up. It is a lightweight.

DipodomysDeserti > YSI-what can brown do for you
04/27/2014 at 16:45

You're comparing a modified car to a factory one. Put $6k of hp mods into a wrx and you'd have well over 300 awhp. Anyone who knows what they're doing with Subaru's would never put that much money into one without upgrading the pistons. I know of what I speak, the bottom one is stock, but will be getting the STI treatment once the EA82 bows out:

Kinja'd!!!

YSI-what can brown do for you > DipodomysDeserti
04/27/2014 at 16:49

Too bad I am an engineer. I always know more than you.

DipodomysDeserti > YSI-what can brown do for you
04/27/2014 at 17:00

More like thank god you're an engineer and not an accountant...

YSI-what can brown do for you > DipodomysDeserti
04/27/2014 at 17:03

What was that? Oh your boat is still slow? Should have bought a boosted FRS #swag #suckmydick

DipodomysDeserti > YSI-what can brown do for you
04/27/2014 at 18:13

Yeah, definitely not an engineer. Sounds more like a 14 year old on mom and dad's computer, or maybe mcdonalds cash register engineer...

YSI-what can brown do for you > DipodomysDeserti
04/27/2014 at 21:56

14 year old? More like swag year old. Faget.

Adrian Monroy > Gatsby's Ghost
09/04/2015 at 14:53

@gatsbysghost,

Dude, $2,000 under invoice?!

What dealership & how quickly can I get there?!

Douglasness > Gatsby's Ghost
03/10/2016 at 00:43

FYI to everyone comparing the 2007 Cayman (base) and BRZ: ongoing costs

Insurance really wasn’t bad for me at ~$1,200/year in KS as a 25-28.5 year old ...yeah buddy! Life was good!

But maintenance: $100 DIY oil changes every year, $250/tire minimum (went through one per year ...nails), replaced tire pressure monitoring system on all four wheels $750 (expected), 20k mile checkups were ~$300 even after doing the oil change myself, replaced a wheel well busted by road debris $100 DIY and the list goes on. And I ONLY lost $4,000 on depreciation over three years (the price was right at purchase).

As an aside, I washed the car once per week and there was no phone, aux or Bluetooth connection. That darn brake dust was really annoying to look at as a perfectionist. Then, playing any of your own tracks was hundreds of dollars away for additional equipment and applied labor (see where I am going with this cost thing).

I doubt that any BRZ would cause someone’s wallet that much grief. The maintenance, repair and insurance costs are prob not even comparable... (hello BRZ, I am looking at you)...

All in all, nearly 3 years driving ~10k miles in a Cayman cost me ~$15k (gas, depreciation, maintenance, repairs). Just sold it this spring...

I don’t miss the bills, but I do miss the driving.

Also, I recently rented a 2011 BMW M3. It was nice. Made me realize just how ridiculously good the Cayman was. I made a mistake letting it go (spring of 2015).

The Cayman was basically driving nirvana. As some say, it stirred the soul. And it didn’t truly sink in until recently.

Everything was so good. The noise may have been the best part. It would thrash so good! Purr kitty purr!

If you can afford it, get the Cayman. Otherwise, shop elsewhere...

I am looking at the BRZ as a potential DD to help appease my sports car craving.

I don’t think I can stomach the bills on a Cayman again. But man was it good.

Douglasness > Gatsby's Ghost
03/10/2016 at 00:59

It would’ve spent ~$20k total over three years and 10k miles if I would’ve purchased the 2007 Cayman at KBB value.

That’s repairs, maintenance, taxes, insurance and gas combined.

I would expect the cost of buying a brand new BRZ, driving it 10k miles per year and owning it for three years would cost half of what the 2007 Cayman (base) had cost.

Driving is expensive kids. Really expensive. Especially, in a Porsche.

What would you do with ~$7k year cash?